With the help of Jon Lemay and Patrick Stanny of Pat & Jon on Their Best Behavior, we discuss the pilot episode of Succession, from its iconic theme music, to the wild glimpse into the lives of the uber wealthy, to how when you’re in doubt, you should just punch your dad in the face.
With the help of Jon Lemay and Patrick Stanny of Pat & Jon on Their Best Behavior, we discuss the pilot episode of Succession, from the iconic theme music, to the wild glimpse into the lives of the uber wealthy, to how when you’re in doubt, you should just punch your dad in the face.
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Kara: [00:00:00] Welcome to it's in My Queue, the podcast where we talk about TV pilots. I'm Kara
Adina: and I'm Adina.
Kara: And today we are talking about Succession. So today we, we have some very special guests to talk about this show with us. If you guys would like to introduce yourselves.
Jon: Well, I am very special guest, "VSG" number one. My name is John Lemay and I am one half of the podcasting duo that you may know or you may not know as Pat and Jon on their best behavior.
Pat: I'm Pat, I'm the other half of Pat and Jon and their best behavior. And I'm a Taurus and I'm five eight and I was born May 9th, 1992 in McGee Women's Hospital in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.[00:01:00]
Adina: The place from which we know Pat and Jon is from Skidmore College. The place where we all attended undergrad when we were freshmen in the 2014 to 15 academic year. These guys were seniors, so they were the, the big guys on campus.
We looked up to them.. Ooh. Should we have, I don't know. That's another, that's another conversation. But if you went to Skidmore, 'cause I'm guessing a good chunk of our audience is probably our friends that went to Skidmore. You obviously know them. If you are any of our friends and family that came to see us in our illustrious production Blood Wedding, you also would've seen Pat and Jon,
Kara: Back in our acting days.
The groom. Yeah. Back in that show. One show. What Acting
Adina: anymore show. I randomly got cast in and got new
Kara: production seminar.
Jon: You played a tree literally, didn't you? You guys did well. Oh
Kara: no, we didn't have, I got playing trees because I said, Hey, we are in that next scene. There's no time for us to get off stage.
I got us out of that.
Adina: Yeah, [00:02:00] you were smart Kara. Yeah.
Pat: I would've never been that smart as a freshman.
Adina: Kara's just ahead of the curve.
Pat: Can, can I just snaps? Holy shit. Like you're Oh, giving back to the place you're playing, you're playing, you were playing chess and I was playing Connect four in that play.
Kara: I was like, I simply won't be a tree. I don't wanna do this. Yeah. So
Adina: what a weird show that actually turned out to be one of the better shows out of the time that we were at Skidmore. Really? Which I didn't think was possible. Yeah. There were some, there was some rough stuff after you guys graduated.
Pat: Is that why you guys are in TV now?
'cause you, you, you put theater in the rear view mirror and you got in your Ferrari and sped off into the sunset.
Adina: Not so much because of Skidmore. I would say more so because of like a global pandemic and of theater being incapable of paying people fairly. I know what you're talking about. Mm. And I like tv.
Hmm. Yeah.
But to segue all of this back to our podcast, we, maybe we didn't learn things that prepared us for the real world at [00:03:00] Skidmore, but we've, all of us have taken things into our own hands to go out and make our own things, make our own podcasts, and study our own things, which brings us back to the show we're
studying today. Succession.
Kara: Yes. I said to everyone before we hit record that this is my mom's favorite show. She has been pestering me ever since we began the podcast last year. She keeps going, when will you cover Succession? When? And I said, Hey it's very long, so give, give us a minute. And now we're here.
Actually, I, I have to say though, as I watched it yesterday to actually take my notes this time, didn't feel that long. I feel like let's talk about how we feel about Succession because I feel like me and Adina have kind of a similar route with how we feel about it, which was I guess last year or whatever, was that the 2020 Emmys?
Yeah, around the time of, so was [00:04:00] 2020. Yeah.
Adina: And it was lockdown. So both of us had a little more free time. And also we both were really trying to get into. Learning about TV writing, being in the know about things, you know, last year. And so we both were trying to watch as many of the shows nominated for the Emmys as we could before the Emmys, which included Succession.
And I had heard from a lot of people that Succession was really good, so I was kind of excited about it. But then I started it and I was like, my God, why does everyone say this is so good? This is the most boring show
Kara: I've ever seen. Yes, I have thoughts on that, but continue. Continue. I hated it.
Adina: Mm-hmm.
I hated it. It was too long. There was too many characters. I didn't connect with any of them and I was just like, why won't this man just retire? Why won't the son just stand up to his father? I was so frustrated the whole time, but I couldn't stop watching. I really wanted to stop, but everyone said that it got so good.
So I was like, I guess I have to like, it's two seasons. I guess I can push myself through this. And I actively hated the experience of watching it. It felt like the most torturous thing I ever had done. [00:05:00] But then after I finished it, I was like, I kind of liked that. So I, it's, there's, there's a few shows that I've had this experience with where I absolutely hate watching it.
But then once I'm done, I'm glad that I've watched it. And the funny thing is, now that I've started rewatching it a second time, I, last year, I never thought I would watch this show ever again. But now I'm actually really loving it the second time around 'cause I just know how to watch it.
Kara: Mm-hmm.
Pat: What are the other shows that you feel that way?
Adina: Handmaid's Tale is one of them. Interesting. It's just, I, I guess I have a short attention span. I don't have a lot of patience for shows that are like slower or, you know, feel like they're longer than they have to be. Mm-hmm. And The Handmaid's Tale, I feel like they've very much stretched it out and added a lot of sad, slow scenes to try and make it more profound.
But I still do like the show overall. Yeah. I would say, I would say I feel that way about a lot of H B O shows because my hot take is that just because you're allowed to make your episodes as long as you want, doesn't mean you have to
Kara: Mm.
Jon: Oh, you're, you're, you're, you're talking Pat's language. Yeah. [00:06:00] Yeah, keep it coming.
Kara: I feel like I, my mom had been trying to get me to watch Succession for a while, but see, her experience is different because the very first episode she watched was like mid-season one Prague, Tom's Bachelor party. So that's her first experience with Succession. So I'm sitting here. The first time I watched the pilot like painting my nails and I was sitting there and I, I texted Adina and I was like, this is like watching paint dry.
Which is literally what I'm doing right now. Yeah.
Adina: And I think I had like, you watched it shortly after me. I like, I forced myself through the whole thing in about three days too. 'cause I just wanted, I hated it, but I wanted to be done with it. So I was so miserable. But then the whole time I was saying to Kara, I was like, look, I didn't like the show very much, but there's one particular moment that made me buy in. And when you get to that moment, you'll know it.
Kara: And I got to it and I did [00:07:00] and she did know it. And I texted her, I went "Adina..."
Adina: But it was interesting. That's why it got me so excited. I was like, this is the first interesting thing that has happened. Yeah. And like now when I rewatch it, I think all the characters are funny and stuff 'cause I already know them.
Yeah. But like I will say on First Watch, this was a rough watch.
Pat: Hmm. Interesting.
Kara: I liked, I liked season two. The first time I watched season two because
Adina: season two's funnier off, off the bat. It's, and I appreciate the comedy of it. I don't care about the, I don't care about what actually happens with the business.
I simply don't. I like the comedy.
Kara: Yeah. So yeah. And then I've also since rewatched, so, and I enjoyed it way more upon rewatch as well,
Adina: like I watch it as a cringe comedy now. Sure. And I enjoy it much more viewing it through that lens. I think my problem was I was looking to actually be invested in the drama. 'cause I thought because it's an hour long show that I was supposed to be invested in the drama, but I guess you don't have to be
Jon: No. There's a lot, a lot of levels to it.
Kara: Yeah. And [00:08:00] we'll get into that when I talk more about the show's inception. Yeah. Oh
Jon: yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that is like a pretty good microcosm of it.
You go next Pat and I'll, I'll round us out. I think that makes the most sense.
Pat: So, so Jon kept pestering me lovingly about watching the show and it was the summer of 2019. And I watched the pilot and maybe the first five episodes, and then I just didn't go on and I felt like, I felt like I was missing something.
Like I feel like the people I was following on Twitter and, and my friends and stuff, they were obsessed. They were obsessed with the memes and the screenshots and the quotes and all that other kind of stuff. And I was like, huh. It's interesting. I, I'm not obsessed like other people and like, these are people that I respect.
Like what is my, my issue? And then maybe a month ago again, I feel this FOMO because the new [00:09:00] season is coming out and I like the idea because I'm old school. Well, I'm not, that's not old school. I like the idea of having a show, a new episode every week. Like I don't, like, I don't, I like something to kind of look forward to.
Yeah. I mean, my life is very exciting, but I do like a little, little treat at the end of my week, especially, you know, it'll be like, ooh, Sundays, like I wake up, I have a nice bagel and coffee, and I have I lose, you know, $30 on my daily fantasy football bets. And then I have nice little Succession.
Woohoo. So I, so I watched it again all the way through. I was obsessed with the second season. Mm-hmm. And I also like the wealth porn of it. Mm-hmm. I like the yachts. I'm sorry. I don't wanna have their lives. You know, you know, these corny investor, entrepreneur people will watch [00:10:00] Succession and be like, why isn't that me?
Dream big bro, for hands emoji. That's not me at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the fucking, like the rocket emoji. Like, no, I just like looking. I think it's cinematic. I think it's pretty like when they're in Greece on the yacht, like who doesn't wanna look at that stuff?
Kara: Yeah. That's how I feel about Gossip Girl, honestly.
Pat: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is kind of escapism. I love the lines, like, I, like, for me it's very like, I like certain rappers, right? Because I just like the punchline rappers, you know what I mean? I'm not really into, I'm not really a storytelling guy. I like guys like Danny Brown, like old Lil Wayne, where it's just like, punchline, punchline, punchline, punchline.
And I really feel like that's what Succession is. It's just like, great line, great line. And yeah, the business stuff is like, I think it's also purposely like [00:11:00] ridiculous and you're not, you're not supposed to follow it because the, the truth is, is like the people in that world can't even follow it because it's all made up.
Like all, all those that, that, that kind of money, it's real, but it's, it's all fake. You know what I mean?
Jon: Something to do, something to pass the time with. Yeah.
Pat: But I will say this, I still am not as obsessed as other people. For some reason, I think that like as a character flaw and maybe that will change with this season. Who knows? But I have, I have faith in the third season of Succession. I'm hoping it's, it's even better than before. I'm hoping it's even more baroque than before. Mm-hmm. I know they're in Italy, which is good. I like Italy.
Adina: But I don't think, not being obsessed with Succession is a character flaw because everyone, like, there's only so many things you can have in your brain and in your soul that you get obsessed with. Yeah. And for everybody, they're different. There's a lot of TV shows that I love, but there's only very few that I'm like [00:12:00] obsessed with to the level of like, wanting to rewatch them before the next season comes out.
Jon: Sure. You know, who is obsessed, obsessed with, with Succession? This guy, this is an audio medium. So I'll just say, I just pointed both my thumbs to myself. Yeah. I fucking love this show. I am a day one Succession guy. I shouldn't say day one. I probably got into it like halfway through, just past halfway through the first season.
And I fucking love this show so much. I have from the jump. I have at this point, I watched the pilot for this, for this episode. It was my fourth time watching the pilot because I watched it by myself. I re-watched it recently with my two MFA friends, Allie and Sophie. And then literally right after they finished it, my girlfriend also wanted to watch it with me, so I rewatched it with her.
So I watch, I've seen it like I've seen the entire season or the entire show, like three times since it came out, which it was only a couple years ago, obviously. And yeah, I just, I, I love like the humor of it, but I, I [00:13:00] also love, like the business stuff. Like I find it really just like fascinating with Pat's Wright with how dumb it is and how like, I don't know, ethereal it is, but also, yeah.
The, just like the, the, the stupid drama of it all and how like all these people are just like fighting for their lives for these things that like, don't matter at all, that actually make the world like a much worse place. Yeah. And how that also like reflects reality too. And I, for me, like I just, I love also talking with people about it and like nudging them towards watching wa watching it and like, I love hearing from them, like about the moment that they get locked into it, which is pretty much like without exception, episode six, season one.
Like the, which side are you on episode, the meeting. Like, that's the point at which pretty much everyone I've talked to is like, holy shit, now I need to watch, I'm gonna watch like every episode you know, before five A 5:00 AM today, I'm gonna find some way to like, squeeze it all into, into that that [00:14:00] timeframe.
Mm-hmm. The way that the stakes of the show change at the end of season one finale is, I don't know. I just have not felt that with the show in a very, very long time. Just, I don't know, just how haunted you feel, how like disgusting you feel after having witnessed that and sort of feeling invested.
It's just like it takes a show that's kind of like, all right, this is good. Like the stakes are there, it's also kind of funny, and then it just turns into something else and you just realize like the magnitude of what these people are going through and how it affects the people around them, both in their immediate circles and then people who are sort of on the, on the far perimeter of it all.
So yeah, I fucking love the show so much. I think everyone in it is great. I think it's funny. I think it's heartbreaking. I think these people are terrible, but I think there's also like just these kernels of goodness that in some characters who come out that kind of like, make it feel like it's not just like a [00:15:00] caricature of like wealthy, terrible people.
And I, I get the hype, I get the hype. I am the hype. I guess.
Kara: It's funny because in my one of my classes this semester my professor starts it off by saying, what is everyone watching? What's everyone been watching? Oh. 'cause you know, I'm in school for tv, so we talk about tv. But we always end up talking about Succession somehow.
And my professor said something very interesting, which was, it's like the longest hour of your life, but when it's over you're like, oh my God. Yes. But it was great.
Adina: That's a good description of it, honestly.
Kara: Mm-hmm. Because that is how I feel. 'cause it was like, it's like an episode will end and I'll be like, oh my God, that felt so long. But then I'll be like, but so much happened that was like, good and pushing the story forward. Sure. And, ugh, it's just great. Sure. Yeah.
Adina: I mean, yeah. Like I said, when I was watching it, I thought it was the most miserable experience of my life. Interesting. And I said so many mean things about the show, but I like it and I recommend it to people and now I'm rewatching it, which I never thought I would.
[00:16:00] Right, right.
Pat: I, I like it because I feel like there's been this debate in the cultural zeitgeist in film and in TV about
Adina: breaking out the word " zeitgeist", now we're getting real,
Pat: the, the concept of likability characters being likable. And I just find that, so like, I feel like John and I really like this movie.
I think you guys should watch this movie. It's called The Souvenir. It's, it's a movie about a girl in film school. She, she falls in love with this, this drug addict. And it doesn't go well. If you could guess, if you could guess. And I feel like a lot of the discourse the, the discourse about that movie is like, why didn't she talk to someone about him? Why, why did she fall in love with him if he knew, if she knew he was a drug addict?
Jon: If it were me, I would simply not fall in love with a drug addict.
Pat: And it's like, it's this weird thing where like, I feel like all of, in the past couple years, people have [00:17:00] criticized things as if they were the people themselves.
Like if I was Kendall Roy, I would just go to therapy and talk about my father. And it's like, then there's no television.
Adina: Oh. Or like expecting everything to be a good moral example of what you should do in that situation.
Pat: Yeah. It, it's like, I don't care that they're unlike, I mean, there's unlikeable people in my life that I have to deal with.
Adina: Yeah.
Kara: Yeah.
Adina: It's not about being likable or unlikable, it's about being interesting versus uninteresting. Yeah. And you can have characters that are not necessarily nice or likable people, but if they're interesting it doesn't matter as long as you like watching what they're doing.
And yeah, I think my initial problem with Succession was I was, I didn't like them and I also wasn't interested. But I think that was a, me looking at it in the wrong way problem. Sure. I think I was caught up on, I didn't understand the business side of it and I thought I was supposed to understand the business and care about it.
And now as I rewatch it, I'm like, oh, well first of all, I, I [00:18:00] understand it a little bit better 'cause I have the context from having watched it once, but I'm like, oh, it doesn't actually matter, like how much money they're gonna make on this deal or whatnot. What matters is like, this is Kendall, you know, trying to do something new and Logan's shooting it down or whatever.
Kara: Yeah. Also, not to plug, not to plug our newsletter a plug away, but I did write. I did write this week about Ted Lasso and White men going to therapy which is allowed on Ted Lasso because that helps to further the show. But like you said, pat, if Kendall got therapy, there would be no show.
Yeah.
Adina: But hey, it actually does give us one of the best moments, and I think it's in season one, family therapy. Yeah. I'll always remember that moment.
Pat: But that's, yeah, that's not real therapy. That's
Adina: like, yeah. No, but that's Succession, that's the version of therapy that's allowed to exist in the Succession world.
Yes. Mm-hmm. 'cause that's what serves the Succession world in the Ted Lasso world. It's a show about people growing and changing. So they show a very wholesome and effective version of therapy.
Kara: [00:19:00] Wow. I can add Kendall to that list of white men characters. Oh, you didn't have him already? I didn't have.
Pat: Who's on the list of white men characters? Go ahead. Okay.
Kara: This is, so this is an archetype I've created for myself where, okay, when I feel very drawn to a white man character, I have noticed that the, the, usually the common denominator is what I call white men with vague or overt daddy issues that could really benefit from therapy.
Adina: I would say they're pretty overt in Kendall's case. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kara: For Kendall it's very overt.
Pat: There's nothing vague about, no.
Jon: Well, in, in addition to you plugging your newsletter, let me just, and I guess Pat also plug the concept of white men who go to therapy because you're looking at two, I dunno if I would say shining examples of it, but you're looking at two examples of it.
So do, if you will, with that.
Kara: Amazing. Yeah,
Adina: I think that's a great endorsement. So this episode is sponsored by Therapy for White [00:20:00] Men™. Yes. Yeah. It helps. Mm-hmm. It does. Therapy for everybody. Yeah. Therapy for everybody. I think it's very good for everyone's True. Yeah.
Kara: So, yeah. I think we should now get into more the show to segue back into talking about Succession.
So this show was created by Jesse Armstrong. It is a satirical drama, says the Wikipedia page about the Roy family. The Patriarch Logan is like the head of this giant media conglomerate. I don't understand business. But basically he owns most everything. And so he's got these four children who are like, well, he sort,
Pat: well, you're missing the a, a key component. He's sort of based on Rupert Murdoch.
Kara: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I was gonna get there. And so he's got these four kids who are kind of all at times vying for his position [00:21:00] in the company. So this premiered on HBO in 2018, and this is October 2nd when we record this. And October 17th is when season three will begin on HBO. It had a super long break in between, obviously because of Covid. So we are finally getting it back. Twitter is. A flame with excitement. Yeah. So that's fun.
So a little bit about Jesse Armstrong, which I found interesting. He is a British author, screenwriter and producer, and he's actually known for creating two British comedy series, which are peep Show and Fresh Meat. I'd heard of Peep Show Too Heard too. And I remember like, I was like reading something and I was like, oh, he's peep show.
So I think that that's, that feels like important context into how you are supposed to watch Succession. Honestly, because I feel like I. If you're watching it trying to, if you watch it and you're [00:22:00] like taking it maybe a little too seriously, you shouldn't be, because as I said before, it's a satirical drama like that.
These people are ridiculous. That's, that's the point. And you're supposed to be like, these people are literally what is wrong with them. And you're supposed to laugh at it 'cause they don't make any sense. So a little bit of background about the show itself. Originally Jesse Armstrong conceived of this as a feature film about the Murdoch family that didn't really go into production or anything like that.
So he ended up expanding it to include more of a, the Wall Street landscape. And in that decided, oh, this would be a good TV series. So he wrote these original characters based off of big media families such as the Murdochs, the Red Stones, who own like Viacom and the Salzberg's who own the New York Times.
So. This got its pilot order in 2016 from HBO, and then in 2017 it got a series order. I feel like I didn't hear too much about it [00:23:00] until season two happened. Like I, it, like did well for itself in season one and people were like, yeah, this is good. But season two got like a lot of critical acclaim.
It got a Golden Globe for Brian Cox and then the series as a whole. And then the Emmys happened. Jeremy Strong won that Emmy as well as the. Writing and directing Succession one and for drama series as a whole. And so like last year, you know how this year the Emmys, it was like all the people from Handmaid's Tale were in supporting actor in a drama series last year.
That was what it was like with Succession. Yeah. They were happy category. It was. Mm-hmm.
Adina: Remember when we recorded, we actually recorded an episode of Emmy nomination reactions last year that we never released. 'cause this was like very early on into our podcasting career. We didn't really know what we were doing.
So it was like two and a half hours long of us just reading all the nominations and we hadn't seen any of the shows, so we were like, we don't need to post this. But I remember us reading through it and just being like, [00:24:00] well, it's a bunch of white men from Succession. And we hadn't seen the show yet, so we were just like, well, this is boring.
But then we both watched the show before the actual
Emmys and we were like, oh, now we're, who are we rooting for?
But yeah, and I gotta say, I probably would've given the Emmy to Matthew McFadyen. Is that how you pronounce his name? I probably would've given it to him over Billy Crudup because I, I just didn't like Billy Crudup's character on The Morning Show.
Kara: So let's get into talking about the episode. Season one, episode one of Succession it's called Celebration. It's written by Jesse Armstrong and directed by Adam McKay. So we start out with a teaser. It's over black.
There's this you hear this snoring and like grunting is like, someone wakes up and he's kind of like, and there's like crashing sound and he's like, where am I? So you can kind of tell it's in the dark, but you can kind of tell it's like this old man, he's kind of walking around feeling for things.
Yeah. We don't know what he is looking for. He goes and he starts to pee. You hear the noise and then [00:25:00] you hear someone calling out to him, Logan. And then some, a woman comes in and turns on a light and he's simply not in a bathroom. He is just like, you know, in like a corner in his room. He's simply not in a bathroom.
Yeah, no, he's he is peeing on the carpet.
Adina: And I have to say there was a lot more peeing on carpets throughout this show than I thought there would be.
Kara: Yes. Yeah. He's like, oh, where are we? And she's like, we're in the new place. So he's in a place that's unfamiliar to him. He is, you know, confused. And she kind of helps him out back to bed.
He's just had, he just had a little moment. He's an old man. So next we cut to another character and he is in a car. There's loud rap music playing. He is this dude, this like 40 year old man. He's got his headphones on listening to this rap music, pumping himself up. You can tell it's a big day. And I just have to say, this character introduction felt the very first time I watched this.
I didn't like Kendall at first. But [00:26:00] the very first time I watched this, I had such a visceral reaction to this moment from him because he just seems like the type of guy that when he's the type of white man that when he's rapping, he just says the N word and oh dear. I was like, I don't like you. So, so that was, that was my experience with Kendall in this moment.
So basically you can, he's just, you know, he's ready for something. He's excited. His driver drops him off outside of this building. He's going into, I love this moment. He takes out a cigarette lights, it takes one puff, then immediately drops it to the ground and stuff, stubs it out, and thens goes into the building.
Adina: Really seems like a 14 year old. He's, he's acting like a 14 year old that's trying to act like a grownup. And it's such a, yeah, it's such a visceral character introduction and I feel like nobody else could play. Now that I've seen the whole show, no one else could play Kendall Roy, but oh my god, Jeremy Strong.
Kara: 'cause it's true and you should say it.
Adina: It's so specific. Mm-hmm. It's this [00:27:00] very specific 40 year old man that has the energy of a teenager, but also is like constantly like swearing and like talking about dicks to try and seem more mature and intimidating.
Pat: Don't, don't let him hear, hear you call him 40, my God.
He would say 36. Excuse you.
Kara: And so he goes into the building and he walks in like he's a man on a mission. And then you hear what I feel is like at the moment, the most iconic theme music of our time. It's the Succession theme. Nicholas Britell was in his bag.
Jon: His work on like films scores is remarkable. So fucking good.
Kara: If I see his name attached to something, it's like, oh, I know I'm gonna be obsessed with the music. So we've got our theme. It's, you know, some nice like montage of some like old timey looking rich people.
And then also like some media stuff playing since they're a media company. So next we move into this is Kendall. He goes into [00:28:00] his, the boardroom and he says, so we ready to fuck or what? Because he is trying to buy this company for Way Star Roco, which is the name of their big conglomerate.
Pat: Are they kind of, They're kind of like a Buzzfeed, right?
This company's like very much a Buzzfeed.
Kara: I assumed it was like Buzzfeed just based on, also based on the way the office is laid out when they go visit it later. I was like, this just feels like it's meant to be Buzzfeed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the, he's speaking to Lawrence, who is the owner of Vulture.
Lawrence says that there's an issue, and Kendall is really, doesn't seem like he wants to take no for an answer. He's saying he'll do whatever it takes. Lawrence is just looking for more money and he says, I'm not letting Neander falls in to rape my company, ever. And then he calls Kendall a daddy's boy, which Kendall is.
But he takes that very badly. He's like, yeah, but you shouldn't say it. Basically he wants to, you [00:29:00] know, salvage this deal because it's this whole part of his big plan, because he is, there's like, you know, a big announcement coming and he's, he, he's part of this big announcement. Mm-hmm. And so this man asks, one of the men that works for him goes, do you wanna call your dad?
So, and Kendall looks at him and goes, Do I wanna call my dad? No, I don't wanna call my dad. Do you wanna call your dad? And he's like so angry about this. And he, he says to push the bid to 120.
Pat: And then that's not $120. That's, it's 120 like million.
Kara: Yeah. It's very, yeah, so much money. Yeah, it's obviously not $120.
But then right as he says that he gets a phone call that is from his dad. It's who is Logan from the beginning asking if he closed. And it's very clear from this phone call that Kendall like, wants his dad's approval. He he asks if he's still good for the announcement, saying that there's, you know, a lot of like, gossip being soft [00:30:00] floated as he says.
He then tells his dad Happy birthday 'cause it's his birthday.
Adina: You know, he's just, I just realized something. Do you remember Kara back in our Arrested Development episode when we talked about Arrested Development and it was shortly after we had both watched Succession.
Kara: Yeah.
Adina: And I, I realized as we were recording that episode, that Arrested Development Pilot and the Succession Pilot have basically the same plot.
Jon: I literally just about to say, so I, I'm prepped for, for this episode last night or yesterday I listened to the Arrested development episode and I was like, oh, this is like perfect. I'm gonna like, this is gonna go hand in hand. And then you guys like mentioned on that, it's like the Succession episode and I was like, I was like screaming like in the grocery store and everyone was like looking at me like, what are you doing you weirdo?
Yeah, it, it really is just like, it's like you could put like Ron Howard's narration in this, like this is Kendall Roy. Yeah. And he's happy right now.
Adina: It's funny 'cause they're so much the same, but also the [00:31:00] execution is so different. Totally. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But I feel like kind of the goals and what those two shows are satirizing are like so similar.
Just the style of humor is very different. And the length Arrested Development does that in 22 minutes.
Jon: It's interesting that they have like the same sort of level of like adoration and the same sort of like internet. Like, you know, like you have like out of context Succession, you have out of context like Arrested Development, like they're both so memeable.
It's, there's so much overlap. Mm-hmm. This is like a, a video essay that I will not make myself, but someone else, please go for it.
Adina: Yeah. Free idea. YouTube content creators. If you're listening if you make this, just shout out our podcast. Shout out all of us.
Kara: Yeah. 10 us. We'll watch it, we'll share it. That's fun.
So yeah, now we move on to the next scene, which involves a new character. Who is Greg? And let me say that I feel like I have been a Nicholas Braun Stan for a [00:32:00] very long time, as in since Sky High. Oh hell yes. Sky High. Yes.
Pat: Also, what is Sky High??
Jon: Oh, pat.
Kara: It is about a superhero, family and high superhero high school. It is so good. And Nicholas Braun is in it, and his character is so funny.
He goes, so he's like, so what is your superpower? And he is like, I glow. And he's just als he's also just so tall still. So it's like he's so much taller than everyone else. He's got like bleach blonde hair. He's hilarious. It's perfect. I, he's also in one of my favorite Disney Channel original movies that no one talks about.
Minute Men. He's great in that as well. It's a fun one. It's on Disney Plus, if you do wanna go watch it how this skyline it still holds up. So, yeah. We see this guy. He played by Nicholas Braun. He is in a parking lot of somewhere and you know, he's got a little weed. And then it cuts to him.
He's dressed in this costume. He's got the little head next to him and he's watching an [00:33:00] orientation video for this thing that he's doing that says that way Waystar Royco is a family. And, you know, watching it. So you hear Logan's voice in the voiceover, it flashes to Kendall saying something, and then the last line of the video is just Feel it.
Which is a weird tagline if you ask me. It's better than that, we hear for you. That's true. Keep watching for that tagline later in the series. Greg goes out to the amusement park. This is his job for the moment. Hmm. He's dressed as Doderick the dog. So Waystar also owns like a lot of amusement parks that's part of their, part of their big company thing.
They own so much that I don't understand how it all connects. They just don't appreciate I
Jon: have bad news about the way that our world works. Kara very bad news.
Kara: I know. Sadly. It's too real. So [00:34:00] these kids start coming up to Greg and they're, you know, getting a little rough with him. They're roughhousing with him and he, they start like kind of spin, so spinning him a little bit and then he ends up falling over.
This one kid jumps on him. Greg gets nauseous and throws up out of Doderick's eye holes. It's pretty nasty. Yeah.
Jon: One of the most visceral, visceral, like images in all of television history. It's excellent.
Kara: It's gross. Next, a phone rings and a woman picks it up. She's like asleep. She's like, Greg, it's his mom.
And he's like, oh, yeah, mom. He's like, so this kid smoked a joint in my car and the car smelled like skunk weed and I guess I smelled like it. And they were just like, get all your stuff and go. He's like, you know, is telling this lie to his mother, and his mom is like, did you tell them who you were?
And he's like, I didn't. I didn't think to do [00:35:00] that. And she says, okay, so here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna go to New York. It's your great Uncle Logan's birthday, and you're gonna get him a gift, dress nicely, ask for some help, wear a blazer. And Greg is affronted by this, a blazer. But yeah, so now we learn that Greg is related to Logan. Cousin Greg.
Very exciting. Maybe he should have told them who he was, but yeah, it feels like that might've saved him some,
Jon: it probably would've changed. Changed the entire trajectory of the show. Like it probably just would've like, I mean, yeah, it's too like butterfly would've effect kind of
Kara: thing. Mm-hmm.
Adina: But I mean, I guess he ends up in a much higher position.
'cause instead of just getting back into the parks training program, he gets like a cushy office job the next week.
Kara: So, so yeah. Honestly, Greg, Greg is doing it right. At the moment. His mom is telling him how to do it, right. His mom helped him get in the right,
Pat: what's wrong with her? She has something right. Is she like a pills person or
Adina: I feel like they all probably have some kind of drug.
Jon: . It seems like she's just like, [00:36:00] just maybe has like a comfortable sort of like middle class or upper middle class existence, but it's like in a totally different strata than like the Roys
Adina: Well, 'cause she's, she's the child of Logan's brother, right?
Kara: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Adina: And he's kind of like, he still owns the stake of the company, but he's kind of distanced himself from it.
Kara: Yeah. Yeah.
Jon: So it seems like mm-hmm. She's just like in her own world and she's fine, but like, isn't,
Adina: not like actively rich.
Jon: And to the point where she like, feel, she like is nudging her son to like, you know, go out and make his, make his way in the world.
Kara: Yeah. Yeah. She's gonna like, inherit a good chunk of change Yeah. When Ewan dies. Right. But right now she's just, you know, living normally So, yeah. Next we go back to Kendall and Frank, who is the other guy that they're trying to get this deal with done in with Vaulter and they're, you know, debating whatnot.
So then this man comes [00:37:00] in. And he says that he was sent by Roman to burn some sage. Roman is Kendall's brother who we're about to meet in a second. He says he's a business alchemist, which I was like, what the fuck? That's not a thing. And then a moment later, Roman comes in and he says, Hey, hey motherfuckers.
And so at the moment they're all kind of concerned with what Sage is going, burning Sage is going to do. Like, is that going to set off fire alarms? And the guy's like, well, not usually. And they're like, oh. But it sometimes does. 'cause that'd be a whole thing. That's a big building. Everyone have to leave.
So basically Roman comes in, he's like, I could use my essential oils instead, says the Business Alchemist. And finally he just sends the business alchemist away. So Roman is Kendall's younger brother. He comes in, he asks how Kendall's doing? Kendall kind of, you know, alludes to the fact that Roman used to work for the company but does not any longer.
And Roman's like, oh, I don't care [00:38:00] about corporate life, whatever. I'm glad to be out of there. He also mentions that he used to work under Frank, which he didn't like. Mm-hmm. So. Roman asks about the bid and Kendall looks kind of like, oh, I don't know if I should tell you, but eventually says that they're going to 1 25 and Roman kind of laughs at this.
And Kendall's like, what, what is that bad? Is that, is, is that a bad too low or too high? As like, don't second. He doesn't even know. Roman has no clue what you're talking about. Like what? Yeah. So and then he kind of gives Kendall a bit of a congratulations because Kendall is supposedly taking over the company and then he leaves saying, look at all this fucking bullshit.
And he's like very serious. You know, Roman is a jokey sort of guy. Doesn't take things too seriously. I feel like, I feel like this. Episode does a really good job with character introductions and you like super getting a sense of who the character is very quickly. Yeah. Which is I think one of the strengths.
Jon: For as long [00:39:00] as it is, like it's very economical, like, and just like how every mm-hmm.
Thing that the characters are doing in like the first like three minutes that they're on screen essentially.
Kara: Yeah. Yeah. So next it is we're back at Logan's. Nice little new place. It's not little, I don't know why I said little. It's a very nice apartment. Yeah. So he like, he's like kind of walking around.
It's the, like the daytime now. He sees the maid cleaning up his pee off the carpet from where he peed the night before. Everyone's preparing for his birthday party. He sits down in the living room and he picks up a Forbes magazine with Kendall's face on the cover. And the headline says The air with Flare.
And he puts it down. He looks a bit disgusted. And he tells Marcia, his wife that he's going out. And she's like, she's like, all right, we'll be back at one for the surprise. And he's like, yeah, well don't have anyone in my face as I'm coming out of the elevator. And he keeps giving her all of these details about what he doesn't [00:40:00] want for the surprise.
And she's like, so do you want me to e do you want me to email you the exact details of the surprise? Because like, it's supposed to be, but it's not. He, he clearly hates surprises. Yeah. So yeah, he goes on out to do his business. So next we see The another of the Roy children, it's Shiv or Shavonne.
She's talking to her assistant about like a speech that she needs to get to her client. She works in politics and she's standing outside of this like fancy store with her boyfriend Tom. And she's like talking to the assistant. The assistant's like, oh, well we need to get it by the pre pretend the speech.
And she's like, what the fuck's? The pre pretend. And apparently the pre pretend is like Friday, but before the end of the day. It's like, what? That's fake. That's not real.
Jon: I kind of like it. I'm not gonna lie. I'm into it.
Pat: I just call it the "freakend".
Kara: So Tom comes over and explains that, but also Tom is busy thinking about something [00:41:00] else.
He wants to strategize about a gift for Logan's birthday. Should Shiv is like, well, you know, my dad doesn't really like things. What do you get? For a man with this much wealth, what do you get him is a good question. Yeah. Basically Shiv says you make it look worth 10 to 15 grand and he's good. Yeah.
And that's ridiculous to me. She just said that so nonchalantly. I was like, okay then. But yeah, now that Tom is here I have to say when I first saw him, I was looking at him and I was like, is that Mr. Darcy? Because it is that he played Mr. Darcy in the 2005 Pride and Prejudice film. But now I don't think of him as Mr.
Darcy. I think of him as Tom.
Jon: And can also just say that what you just said caused like half of the podcast listening audience to almost throw their phones o out the window. 'cause they probably wanted to say no, he's not Mr. Darcy. Colin Firth is Mr. Darcy. So [00:42:00] I'm just trying to, you know, acknowledge that it's true.
Kara: Anyway so next we go back to Kendall. They're still strategizing about this bid. He's kind of joking around and he is like, well, maybe we'll throw in a blowjob and cup his balls a little bit.
But he says this right as Logan walks in. And so everyone else is kind of getting very serious, like, oh my God, the big boss is here, and Kendall doesn't notice him. And then he finally turns around and is like, oh, hi. He takes his feet off the desk. Yeah. He's like, oh no. What are you doing here? And so Logan kind of asks how it's going, and Kendall's like, well, is everything okay?
And Logan comes in and he brings this paperwork that he says is about putting Marsha, who is his third wife for context on the trust. Mm. And Kendall's like, this is just about the trust. It doesn't affect me stepping up since, you know, he's supposedly going to be taking over and they're announcing it soon.
Logan's like taking out the papers for him to sign. Kendall kind of looks over it, you know, [00:43:00] it's like a pages long contract that he probably should have read more. And he goes, I don't need to do I need to lawyer this? And Logan's like, it's just housekeeping. And so Kendall signs it like a dumb ass.
Mm-hmm. Then he says to Logan, he's not sure if he's gonna make it to lunch. And Logan just looks at him and goes, it's your call. And then he says there'll be plenty more. For context, Logan is turning 80 today. So I. Maybe there will be plenty more, but also maybe not. So that's real manipulative of him.
And also confusing. So Kendall is like, oh no, what do I do? I feel like this whole pilot is Kendall just being like, I need someone to tell me what to do, but no one's actually telling me what to do. It's very stressful. Which is funny.
Adina: Ask for help when you're trying to be the macho man head of the company.
It's like, well, why do you need help? Why don't you just know what to do? Yeah. I do feel kind of bad for him.
Kara: Yeah, I do too. It's like the longer you watch this, the more you go, [00:44:00] oh, poor guy. And then you're like, wait. Yeah.
Jon: And the more you rewatch it, the more I just, whenever I rewatch it, it's, I, for me Kendall be like, becomes the locus of the show more and more. And I just see like, Everything sort of revolving around him. And like his humanity comes out. Mm-hmm. Far more. Yeah. The more, the more that you watch it, I find, and this, this, that was something that struck me. Just watch, rewatching the pilot.
Kara: Yeah. So now it is people are gathering at Logan's apartment for his birthday party.
We are introduced to his oldest son Connor, who is talking about his farm that he lives on. He like doesn't care about the business and he's like, oh, I'm gonna go do my weird projects or whatever.
Adina: Yeah. He doesn't care about the business as long as he can still have infinite money to do whatever the fuck he wants,
Kara: Just as long as his dad gives him money, he's okay. He's talking about his farm to a child that, I'm gonna ask this to John because I've been unclear [00:45:00] on this. Is this Roman's daughter?
Jon: No, I think that it's I think that the child is his, maybe his girlfriend's daughter.
Kara: No, no. This is Roman's girlfriend. Grace's. Yeah, I, yeah. Is that, I think so. Okay. I think so. I've never been clear on this because I also noticed in this episode that Roman was wearing a wedding band. Oh, are they married?
Adina: That might've just been a weird pilot thing 'cause I don't think he's married.
Kara: Yeah. I think because I've also, I've also looked at the Succession. I've read the pilot script before, and in that version of the pilot script, it like talks about Roman having a wife and I was confused because I was like, he doesn't have a wife. So I think it's just a weird, confusing pilot moment. Yeah. Frankly, I was lost as to the parentage of this child because in a later episode, I think in the Thanksgiving episode, she doesn't call Grace her mom.
She calls her like Aunt Grace. Oh, which is the other reason I was confused. So maybe she is a [00:46:00] niece. I'm, so,
Jon: I I just searched it on Reddit. I met with her. Oh, I just searched on Google. And something that came up is, it's a, it's a thread that says who is the third kid? And someone said my guess is she's Roman's stepdaughter, but was basically retcon into being Roman's girlfriend's daughter.
Kara: Thank you to the people paying more attention than us. Next Shiv and Tom arrive. Shiv has this very awkward hug with Marcia. There's clearly tension there. Basically all of these kids are, none of them are Marcia's.
So Connor is his Logan's child from his first marriage and then Kendall, Roman and Shiv are his children from his second marriage. For anyone that wanted that clarification
Adina: it was very confusing to me at first. I spent a lot of time on Wikipedia reading about how these characters were related, watching this show originally.
Kara: Yes. So I'm giving people that context now, and then you won't have to wonder any longer. So then you see Tom, he's holding very firm to this box, which is [00:47:00] clearly the present he picked out for Logan. I love this interaction between Roman and Shiv. So I wrote it down. He says, Look at you, you look, you look like, you know, an actual human person.
And then Shiv is like, okay. And she hugs him and she says, what is that date rape by Calvin Klein about his like, cologne? And he goes, yeah, you wish. And walks away so good. And Shiv is like, you wish? She's like, huh, you are my brother. So then it cuts to the next scene, which is Logan. He's on the street, you know, returning for his surprise.
And there these, the paparazzi's kind of like hounding him. And his security guard Colin is like getting them away. Logan tells 'em to fuck off. And then we see Greg, he has made his way to New York per his mother's telling him to do so, and he's standing in the lobby and he says, I will say [00:48:00] Greg did look like he was about to like, pull out a gun.
Yeah.
Pat: Yeah. Real, like killing John Lennon outside the Dakota vibes.
Kara: It's like the look on his face. Him holding that random bag,
Adina: it's partly the height, but also he just looks, yeah, he looks so uncomfortable and like he's not supposed to be there.
Kara: And so Colin Logan's bodyguard like pushes Greg up against the wall because he's like going into his pocket for something and he is like, what are you about to pull out? And so Greg is like, Hey, no, I'm Greg. I'm Greg.
My mom called ahead. She said I was coming. And cousin Greg and Logan's like, oh. Oh yeah, I know who you are. I didn't know you were coming. And Greg, he's like, yes, you did, but Marsha knew Greg was coming. Yeah, Logan did not. So finally, Colin, let's go of Greg. And he's like, Logan's like, all right, well come on upstairs.
And Greg is quite kind of like, he's a very good body part 'cause you know, he was doing his job. It was very [00:49:00] jarring. So Marsha says to everyone that Logan is back and that they're all gonna go get ready to surprise him at the elevator. Exactly. Which were the exact opposite of his instructions.
And Roman is like a surprise. I think the last time I surprised him, he took a swing at me just kind of to himself. So Greg is in the elevator with Logan and he is talking about how he was on the international management training program and there was kind of like, you know, he accidentally, he like, Got sent away from it as he did.
And he's kind of trying to talk to Logan about it, trying to get his job or whatever, but then the elevator opens and they arrive up at the apartment and everyone says, surprised And Logan is done with it. He does not care. He's like, yeah, yeah. Whatever he says to Marsha, he's like, what did I say? I said, no one by the elevator.
And what, what do I see? Everyone's by? Everyone's by the elevator. They're all in my face. He then greets his children nicely. He does it in somewhat [00:50:00] birth order, except Kendall's not there. So he's not there to be in the middle. So thanks to, thanks to Jesse Armstrong for putting them in birth order. He says, Connor Primo, and Connor tries to give him like a bag.
That's his gift, but he doesn't take it at the moment. See, clearly he doesn't care about things. He goes, Roman Romulus hugs Roman. And then he says, Sivan. And he asks where Tom is. And Tom is like, you know, a few feet behind them. And he's like, well, nevermind because he's about to say something. And then he turns to everyone and he, he turns to Greg and is like, everyone, this is Craig cousin Craig.
And Greg doesn't do anything to correct him. So Shiv is like, it's Greg. No. And Greg kind of nervously goes, oh, people sometimes like mistakenly call me Craig too. So I'll answer to both. Just, you know, very awkward bumbly, kind of like that's that's, it's weird that I'm,
That's
Jon: me when people spell my name. J o h n.
Just rolling over. Mm-hmm. Rolling over, but like, nobody's business.
Kara: Yeah. I, [00:51:00] I, for a while I would answer to "Car-uh" because people Yeah. Just would say it and I'm like, this isn't it, but I know who I know you're referring to me. I'll take what I can get. So, sure.
So next, Tom tries to give Logan his gift, but at the same moment, Kendall arrives and it's very clear from the look on Logan's face that this was the wrong move.
He should not have come, he should not have left the deal. So Logan asks about the deal and Kendall says, it's good, it's good. And then his phone rings and he's like, I've got, I've gotta take this. And then Logan kind of turns to Roman and he is like, you've been down there. And Roman says, it's a, it's a shit show.
Jon: Can I, can I just say really quickly, sorry. I ke I know I keep harshing your mellow and ruining your flow. But the, I just, I love this moment. I love the moment of the introduction and you kind of like gestured toward this earlier, but like the way that Logan, I. Interacts with them. Like the way he greets them is such like an encapsulation of like their dynamic, right?
With like, with Connor, he's like, Hey, Primo. Like there's this like very, he's like handling him [00:52:00] with kids' gloves and like, clearly doesn't take him seriously. And he is like referring to him like, you would like a child, like, hey, sport, like good to see you. And with Roman, like he goes to hug him. And Roman like, kind of like, is like, he's a little like scared of him.
Like he, he doesn't like it when his father makes quick movements around him. 'cause he doesn't always gonna do to him with Shiv. Like he very much treats her like, you know, like the princess, like the favorite child. And with Kendall, like, there is like him being there is like a clear indication that he's, you know, once again has fucked up this ultimatum that Logan has thrown his way.
And then with, with. Greg, he, you know, gets his name wrong and doesn't really give a shit about him. So it's, again, it's just like this, there's this way in which like the show is just so smart with like all of the interactions, just like moving things along and letting you know what like the family dynamics are of this deeply fucked up family.
Kara: No, these are good interruptions. Okay. We do these sorts of interruptions all the time. Perfect. Thank you. Yeah. So yeah. The, it [00:53:00] continues Kendall's on the phone talking about business that I was like, sure over my head. But next Shiv is talking to Logan. She kind of pulls him aside. She's like, I think Tom is ready for something bigger.
I think he's ready for parks. And then Connor comes over again and tries to give Logan his gift. And this time he actually succeeds. He pulls out this like dough thing in a container, and Roman is like, it's a goo, it's a fucking goo. And Connor is like, it's sourdough starter so that he can make bread without yeast, the old fashioned way.
And so Logan's response to this is old bread. Thank you.
Adina: I'm like, you, you think your father's the kind of man who has time or desire to make his own bread.
Kara: It is such a weird gift. And then Marcia's kind of looking at him like, be nice. Logan will not be nice to his children. Thank you very much.
Kendall comes over and says that he's not sure if the board's gonna be able to get together. At the holidays. It's gonna be difficult to wrangle them. So he scheduled a [00:54:00] call at four and then they can issue a release about, you know, him taking over. Then Rava, who is Kendall's ex-wife, arrives with their children.
He kind of says hello to them. It's very clear. It's kind of like awkward between them. They start negotiating when Kendall can see the kids because he hasn't seen them in a while. And he's kind of, you know, he's been so busy with this deal that he's kind of missed the weekends he was supposed to have or whatever.
Then he like weirdly tries to ask her out and she's not having it and she's like, she's like, oh, I'm seeing someone and I'm just hoping this one doesn't leave. Coke smeared all over the kids' iPads and Kendall takes this very poorly. He feels like he just looks like a ki a kicked puppy. Yeah. At this moment.
Adina: I mean, if you're gonna do Coke, do you have to do it off of your kids' iPads? That's my question. Do you not have other surfaces in your house? Truly.
Jon: He has other iPads. No,
Kara: Rava's like, I'm joking, I'm messing with you. And she's saying like, you deserve this or [00:55:00] whatever. And so before they have lunch, Logan says he's going to call.
His kids into the sitting room before they eat. At this is, and Greg decides this is the moment he's going to ask again about the job. And Logan's like, not now, and Greg very nervously, but also slightly a assertively goes, sorry sir, sir, I need your attention. And kind of asks if he can get back into the management training program and mentions his grandfather and Logan goes, oh, I'll do anything for my brother.
All he needs to do is just ask. And Greg is like, I mean, you two don't talk so much. Right? And Logan is like anything, just get him to ask me. So clearly setting up that Logan and his brother don't seem to like each other, they don't speak. And Greg is like, well, fuck, that was, that was the whole thing, is that I, he's like, I need to figure this out.
So Logan goes on into the sitting room with his children and he explains that he's [00:56:00] adding Marcia to the family trust, and that upon his death, his feet would go to her. And Shiv's like, but that gives her double voting weight. It's like the horror they're like, who this, who is this lady? Because they don't really like Marsha very much.
And Logan's like, well, Kendall's already signed it and now he looks like even more of a fucking idiot because he didn't read it. And so he starts handing this out to them and Shiv is looking at it and she's like, well, I'll have to talk to my lawyers about this. And Logan is like, look, I love the bread.
Goo, but this is the present I really want. So by four Good. And he says, and then he is like about to leave, but he goes, oh, also, I already mentioned to Kendall, despite the chatter and all things considered, I'm gonna give it a couple years. And then he, the, this shot is so funny to me because he is like standing there and then Kendall's behind him and all of a sudden you just see Kendall's face change and [00:57:00] go, what?
He's like, I already mentioned this, but he did not. He simply didn't. No, he didn't say a thing to Kendall. And so he says he's staying in and Kendall just looks so shook and confused and angry. And then Logan leaves the room. Kendall kind of turns to all of his siblings. Roman is laughing and he's like, what?
What is going on? He then asks if Logan looked okay. Yeah. To them. And Shiv is like, well that's not nice. 'cause he's kind of implying that maybe he is not of sound mind at the moment. Connor basically says he doesn't care. Whatever they decide, it's fine. As in his words, I'm water, I flow and he leaves the room.
So then it's just Kendall, Roman and Shiv that are left in the room. Kendall very much seems like he's the oldest of these kids from the second wife. So he's like, you know, trying to figure this out, [00:58:00] trying to assert that he should be in charge here. And he's like, we can't just let Marsha in, just because, you know, she's the one who's like got our dad's dick in like a vice grip basically.
And. Then right as he says this, Marsha's like, it's time for lunch. I don't mean to be strict. She's so, she's heard this all. She's like, I don't mean to be strict, but you know, time to eat. And Kendall then leaves the room, goes right into the dining room and shuts the door to speak to Logan alone. And he is like, Hey, so.
You fucked me. Logan basically says that he's changed his mind. He refers to Kendall's time in rehab by saying, three years ago you were still in the nuthouse. Mm. And Kendall is like, Hey, it was rehab and I'm in recovery. So this is a huge so spot for Kendall that he's like, you know, he's been making all these strides trying to get better and clearly it's like going unnoticed with some people.
And [00:59:00] Logan is concerned that Kendall looks soft because of the way that he's been dealing with the Vaulter deal. It's making you look weak in Logan's words about saying that Kendall did this. Let Lawrence do this to him. I hear you bent for him and he fucked you. He's like, you know, Kendall's gone to like business school and is like, it's not, I don't wanna like talk, act like it's a big dick competition.
And Logan is like, well, sometimes it is a big dick competition. He also then, then points out that Kendall didn't say he needs a lawyer for the trust to look at the trust change paperwork. And he also left the room in the middle of the deal. So he's basically saying that all of these things were stacked up against Kendall and made him look bad and not ready.
And Kendall asks, well, when will you be ready? And Logan says, I don't know, five. Hmm. And this is very silly, but it reminds me of this moment from my Carly where Spencer is like getting the elevator fixed and is like asking the [01:00:00] repairman how long it's gonna take. And he is like, I don't know, three, maybe four, but doesn't say what time increment it is.
And so Spencer is like three. What? He's like confused. So Kendall is like years. And then Logan. Then Logan after saying five goes 10. And he, he's like, it's my fucking company. And Kendall is like, you're running it into the fucking ground. Where's the vision? You're off the beat. Then he explains what Vaulter is, a portfolio of online brands and whatnot.
Kendall is very close to this deal. It's like the thing that he was gonna do to like launch him becoming CEO and it was gonna be this really big thing. So he's angry and you see, he's like clenching his fist and he's mad and Logan goes over to him and is like, you wanna hit me? And he is like, go on, give it your best shot.
And then Kendall starts.
Adina: My theory is if Kendall had just fucking punched Logan in this moment, I think he would've been able to step up. That was [01:01:00] my thought the first time I watched this.
I was like, just punch him in the face. Just punch your dad. And I mean, now I understand, you know, the whole thing
is that you can't,
Jon: And that's the moral of this episode is when in doubt punch your dad in the face.
Kara: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Just like Jamie Tartt spoiler for, that's another,
Adina: honestly, that's a really good another parallel of how these two shows are different.
That show lets Jamie punch his dad in the face. 'cause it actually is what he needs to move on.
Kara: Yeah, exactly. So then Kendall starts to look a little teary-eyed, and then Logan makes fun of him. He says, are you gonna fucking cry Kendall? Are you fucking crying? He sounds like a schoolyard bully to his child.
Yeah. So Kendall is like, I've been getting asked for quotes and Logan is like, fuck them. And he is kind of saying that he like, Logan's built this company from the ground up, like basically from nothing. So he says, you make your own reality and when you've done it, apparently everyone is of the opinion.
It was all so fucking obvious. [01:02:00] And then he opens the doors, shouts lunch, and everyone awkwardly files into the dining room, like, I don't know what to do. And Kendall goes and excuses himself. He goes into the bathroom and he looks real sad. He just kind of stands there for a second and then he picks up some Q-tips and starts like breaking them in half.
Then he starts completely tearing up the bathroom, smashing things, breaking vases or whatever. He's making a really big mess. He screams into a coat that's hanging on the door. He bangs the hairdryer like against cabinets. He starts ripping up magazines and then he starts cleaning up up the mess. Yeah, he, he like then very, he stops and he is like, oh, look what I've done.
And he like, he gets in the trash can and just kind of starts putting his mess in there. But then he like sees that he's ripped up this Forbes cover that he's on and he looks really sad. And this was the point when I was watching this yesterday where I literally [01:03:00] went, oh, this poor man, which is never a thought I have had before, but I was like, oh, because I, this is another thing my professor said in class on Monday.
It's like, the longer you watch this, the more your, like reality is skewed and you're like, oh, I feel so bad for these people. Which is not terrible.
Jon: I mean, it's turned me from a socialist to a capitalist. So, you know, things change.
Kara: Yeah. So this is, that's, that's what this show does.
Pat: It's turned me from a capitalist into a monopolist.
Kara: Next we are on to, they're having lunch and there's some lunch chatter some notable moments where Greg going, who's Gore Vidal? Shiv is talking to Roman. This was another reason that I was like, does Roman have a child? Because Shiv goes, yeah, no, I remember your daughter. And I was like, what?
So this is why I was always confused about who, what is it, what's Roman's deal in this? But I think it was just confusing [01:04:00] pilot stuff that didn't end up happening really. Roman's girlfriend, lady says that lunch is wonderful to Marsha. And then Shiv also kind of adds in. Yes. Thank you for organizing this just being very suck, upy and Roman calls her out on being a kiss ass.
Next Frank stands up and makes a toast to Logan, talking about how he owns the fifth largest media conglomerate in the world, which is I. Very, that's pretty big. Yeah. That's a lot of things to own. Yeah. And he just keeps doing it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Throughout this. So he mentions that he came in 30 years ago to give some legal advice to Logan and never left.
And he's saying he's proud to call him a friend. And they toast Logan. Then Logan says, I think it's time to play the game. And then Greg asks, what's the game? And everyone starts laughing at him like, in kind of a [01:05:00] sinister, creepy way. So in my brain when I first watched this, I was like, so are they gonna go hunt something?
Is that thing going to be ... people?
Adina: I was like kind of confused by the way they react to this and then they all get in fucking helicopters to go to whatever the game is and they don't say anything about what it's going to be. So I was like, what weird sadistic thing are they about to do?
Kara: Yeah, I was so confused. So next they all kind of get in the cars to go to the helicopters.
Greg gets in the car with Marcia and Logan. I don't know why they put him in the middle seat. What a terrible idea for the driver who probably can't see now. And Greg tries again to make sure that he's got a job. So he says that he was talking to his grandpa and he said, happy birthday. And Logan's like, oh, did he?
And Greg is like, well, not technically, but he's aware it's your birthday. Then he starts talking about how his grandpa has like, you know, his seat on the holding company. And this is [01:06:00] Greg's first instance of trying to like, I per perhaps, blackmail's not the right word for this moment, but like, you know, using things to his advantage, but in his weird way that he speaks where it sounds like he's not very good at it, but he's, you know, thinking so he's talking about how that's funny, having this seat on the holding company.
He's like, that must be suboptimal in some ways and maybe it could be filled by someone a bit more perspicacious you know, things like that. Trying to work his way in. He's like, you scratch my back. I'm not gonna say I'll scratch yours. It's too considerable a space. And then Logan kind of like mumbles.
He like doesn't, he's like, oh my god. He's like, whatever. So then they all get in their helicopters. There's like three or four helicopters and I'm like, holy hell, this is, this is rich person porn. In this moment they're like very wealthy and they can just do things like this. It's very bizarre, but [01:07:00] also so nice to look at.
So they get in the helicopters and Shiv is in the, on the ride, like reading the contract and she looks up at Kendall and just shakes her head. No. She's like, this is not favorable to us. So it's in fact bad that Kendall signed it. So then in the helicopter, Logan is sitting next to Roman and he is like, so what do you think about Marcia And Roman is kind of, you know, being, you know, not wanting to say something bad because he is still thinking about himself mostly, which is how all of these children work, they're thinking about themselves which we're gonna see in a minute.
With Shiv as well. So Logan is like, what do you want to Roman? And he tries to act like he doesn't want anything when he, so obviously does, but he, like, he says that Logan's like, well, I want you back in. And Roman's like, I don't want Frank working over me because he says that he hated that.
And he says that he wants to be in charge, but COO until that opens [01:08:00] up, which is Frank's job. So Logan kind of considers this and is like, huh, okay. Now we find out what the game is. It's just like baseball. Yeah. So all of that. And I was like, worried they were gonna shoot someone.
Pat: Can we talk about the fact that it's baseball? I think there's a little bit to read into here. Logan is from Scotland, right? What's the game they play in a, a country of Futball, F U T B O L and like log throwing and shit like that. And it's like golf, cricket.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's, they play baseball, like kind of like the most corny American game. And if you think about like Fox News and what's the name of the network? They have A T N, which is like very, like corn copy you know, kind of like blue collar American values, [01:09:00] obviously. Totally fabricated.
I think there's something there, guys. Yeah. No. Am I crazy? Yeah. It also, am I crazy for saying this?
Jon: No, I mean, not for that reason.
Kara: I don't think so.
Adina: I think definitely a big part of their family image that has been constructed is, you know, being this American elite specifically.
Jon: Mm-hmm. Well, and also trying to pretend they're normal, right? That they're like, oh yeah, like this is what you do like on Thanksgiving. Like you throw the pig skin around, see, like, you know, that's, that's, that's what you do. Mm-hmm.
Kara: Yeah. This also reminds me I might be the only one that has seen Downton Abbey in this space. There's a few scenes in Downton Abbey where the family, they do this like cricket match every year with the town's people of the town that they live in.
As, as like a sort of like good sports sort sort of thing.
Pat: It's just a tad condescending.
Kara: It's like, yeah. And by ta I mean, which is how this felt to me.
Adina: I mean, this scene gets actively, horribly condescending later on with what Roman does. Yes.
Kara: So [01:10:00] bad. So yeah, also notable you hear Greg in the background going, that was my first helicopter ride. He's like, so excited.
Pat: Well, he's really a conduit for the audience. Yeah. In the sense of experiencing the wealth for the first time. I'm, I'm thinking about the, the part in is it season one or season two that Kendall gives him the apartment. Okay. That's, yeah. Where he's like, what?
And that's like, that's what any of us would do, right? If someone was like, mm-hmm. Hey, here's the keys. Like, my guy needs to flip this. We're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. What?
Kara: And Kendall is just like, this is just so in of the norm. Yeah. And Greg is like, holy fuck. Yeah. So that's, that's another thing like similarly to what we were talking about earlier.
Greg is also in the same position as his mom. Like when his grandpa dies, he's going to inherit a decent chunk of change, but right now he's just normal. So yeah, he's in a bit of a different space than the rest of the family that have just kind of grown up with this wealth think, and it's normal to them.
Adina: They're serving a similar purpose to other newcomer characters that we've talked about in other [01:11:00] pilots.
Kara: Exactly. Just it all back to the TV writing of it all. Yes.
So next we see Logan talking to Shiv. He's asking if she would come into the company and she says, she's like, well, I'm not just playing with my politics.
And Logan says, in a very crass manner, politics is what comes out of the asshole. And she's, but Shiv is pretty confident that the candidate that she is working for is going to be president. So that, so if she wanted to come back, she would want the top job. And Logan is like, I'll give you everything outside of the us.
And then she goes, so I'd be Tom's boss, which she kind of loves the idea of Shiv gives off such girl boss vibes. Yeah. Very much guest, like geeky girl boss. Especially in season two.
Jon: It's so hot. It's so hot. We're all thinking it, but I'll, I'll just be the one to say it.
Kara: So she's kind of into that.
Shiv asks about Greg and Logan is like, oh, he needs some help. He [01:12:00] might fit in the parks. And then he asks if Shiv thinks that Tom can handle that competition. Which I then wrote in my notes, eyes emoji for later down the line. Finally, finally, Tom gets to present Logan with his gift. He has been waiting to give Logan this gift.
He's like really sucking up. So he comes over and he opens it. It is a Patek Philippe watch and Tom says about this watch, it's incredibly accurate. Every time you look at it, it tells you exactly how rich you are. And Logan kind of chuckles and is like, that's very funny. Did you rehearse that? And Tom kind of laughs but he did rehearse it, in fact.
Because that's just the type of person that Tom is. Also, these watches are very expensive. Ranging, honestly, more than 10 to 15 range.
Adina: Did you say it's like a hundred grand?
Kara: It depends on the, it depends on the model. You, but some of them are like,
Pat: Drake has like a $1.5 million Patek.
Kara: They're very expensive. Like ridiculously expensive. Don't, [01:13:00] I don't know why you would need a watch like that to remind you how rich you are.
So then Kendall, Roman and Shiv are all talking in a corner. Kendall is basically saying they have to band together. He's like, we're the dream team.
He's like, so I'll be in charge and you two will be co-presidents. And they're both Roman and Shiv are both kind of like, that doesn't sound appealing because you'd still be in charge. And so Roman goes, I thought about it. Fuck you. And walks away. 'cause he thinks that's stupid.
Next is Tom and Greg. They're on the field. The game hasn't started yet. And Tom is like, oh, so you're the new kid. And Greg's kinda like, ha ha. Yeah.
Pat: And did you read very homoerotic vibes in that
little?
Kara: I was about to read it out because I wrote it. So here's what Tom says. Here's what Tom says to Greg.
Well, I've got my eye on you. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You need any help, just, you know, don't fucking bother. Okay. And Greg looks a little concerned and he's like, I'm only razzing you 'cause you're dreaming. Really? I'm [01:14:00] razzing you. That was a joke. I may look really fun, you know, but the thing about me is that I'm a terrible, terrible prick.
And Greg, I. Looks concerned again. And he said, and so then Tom is like laughing. He's like, fuck me man. Your face pals. Yes. Would you kiss me? Would you, if I asked you to? If I told you to? And Greg is still just like, what is going on? He's like, I'm joking, I'm joking. So that is our introduction to Tom and Greg's dynamic where Tom just seems very excited to have someone to bully in a way.
That's the type of guy that he is. He's like, since he's kind of on the bottom of the totem pole, he's like, well, I need to find someone else beneath me. And he decides that Greg is beneath him, even though Greg is someone to give him just the
slightest reprieve from his his eternal damnation of being the world's biggest cuck essentially.
Yeah. Which on a similar note, well, not to this mm-hmm. But to, to what we said earlier about the homoerotic vibes.
Jon: Have you guys seen the [01:15:00] YouTube video? Succession, but it's a rom-com.
Adina: That's Kara's favorite video. Fucking good.
Kara: It's my favorite video to video on the internet. Yes, yes. I'm going to share it out.
I'm going to share it out. I'm probably gonna put it in the episode notes of this podcast and also put it in our newsletter's. The week that this comes out,
Adina: here's my thing. I, I
fully love that video and I love the Tom Greg dynamic throughout the show. I very much do. But I, my reaction the first time I watched this pilot, just to bring it back to initial reactions, was Tom was the most skin crawling man I had ever seen in my life.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I hated him more than I'd hated any other character. Something about his friendliness and his, like, sexual harassment of Greg and like, just the unevenness of it all was the most unsettling thing I had ever seen.
Yeah. So he was by far my most hated character. Yeah. And I grew to love him later on, but just the initial impression is so I know.
Jon: Yeah. Because you realize how utterly harmless he is because he's just a complete and utter buffoon.
Kara: So now they're starting to play the [01:16:00] game. They're playing their baseball and Kendall is like about to bat, but he gets a phone call and he says he has to take it. So they're all, Roman is like annoyed 'cause they need someone else to play.
So he calls over to this kid. I assume that it was like, you know, like the Groundskeeper's family. And he's like, Hey, do you wanna play dad? Can he play? And. Oh, this poor family. So the kid comes over, he's allowed to play. So be, but before we get to the worst bit, Kendall is on the phone with a publication.
He says that he's not Kendall, just a person that's close to the family, talking about the Roys and saying that Logan is lost. It, the person asks, so what should we, who should we say you are? He's like, just say a source close to the family. I love that. 'cause there's like a lot of, you know, those things where when it says like a source close to so-and-so, it's usually just the person.
Yeah. Then he gets in his helicopter and he's off back off to the city.[01:17:00] So Roman says the kid is like finally playing. He's not doing very well. He keeps kind of getting strikes and Roman says he's wants him incentivized. And he says that he will give this kid $1 million if he hits a home run and.
The kid is like, clearly doesn't believe him. The parents are like, I like, obviously they, they like know that he has the money and the means to do this, but like, they're like, but he wouldn't really, he gets out a checkbook and writes the check. So the kid hits the ball this time and he's running, he's, he's, looks like he might make it.
Mm-hmm. Tom gets him out at third base. So he like almost made it. Roman is just being a nightmare. So terrible asshole to this title.
Adina: He's like, he rips it up right in front of the kid's face and he's like, oh, that would've accounted if you had made it. You were so close. And that would've counted, you would've had a million dollars.
Kara: So sad. And then Logan kind of like shakes his hand [01:18:00] and like he goes back to his family and he looks so defeated. Yeah.
Adina: And they're all like, oh, you're still so lucky that you got to play baseball with us.
Kara: Yeah. It's terrible. Absolutely terrible. This is like that moment where you're like, oh my God, these people are the fucking worst.
And you, it's like just bad and you're upset for them. It's also, it's something Adina said at one point where it's like, it's very clear that the little guy is never gonna win on this show. No matter how close like those people would get. It's always gonna be this family on top.
Adina: I think it's good and important that they have this scene in the pilot. 'cause they, I feel like later in the show there's not as much of this direct, you don't see them interacting directly with civilians that much. Like you see how their actions affect other people. But I think it's good they have this very obvious scene in the pilot. 'cause it makes it very clear this is the type of show it's going to be and kind of cues you in to look for that in later episodes, even though you're not gonna see it as directly.
Yeah.[01:19:00] But like every single time one of them is like making a bad call that's like gonna eliminate some arm of the business or like mm-hmm. Cause a big fucking accident at one of their factories or whatever. Even though you don't necessarily see it, you're like, oh, this is just an inconvenience for them, but it's like ruining other people's lives.
Jon: Well, and it occurs to me that like, it's like the, this is really like the only time that we see that directly happening in the show until the season finale in a much different way. Mm-hmm. So there's this way in which like, it's just, yeah. The, the actions and carelessness of like all of these people, like, you know, it, it, it affects the people around them in very small and in very large ways.
Adina: It's all very great Gatsby too.
Jon: I was literally going to just say I, I have my, I have my copy of the Great Gatsby with around me all of the time and What I, the line is like, something about like, there were just careless people who yeah. Ruined shit. They were careless people. Tom and Daisy, they smashed [01:20:00] up things and creatures and they were retreat back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together and let other people clean up the mess they had made.
Kara: So Kendall is back in Manhattan. The other, there was another offer for vaulter that fell through. So now we started this episode at like, under one 20 million. He was gonna pay for this company. Now we're at one 40. Just for, just for To check in on what number we're at. And he says something about cash with a stock alternative.
And Lawrence will also be on Waystar's board. So he's got like a, it's kind of a decent package. And so then Kendall decides to do some shit talking of, of his own, trying to, you know, do that. And he says, one of the things I wrote that he says that I thought was stupid was, I'm gonna stuff your mouth with so much money, you're gonna shit gold figurines.
And I was like, okay. And he basically is saying, this is a deal so fucking good. You have to take it or we'll see you in court, [01:21:00] dude. Which just feels very silly. It's like, this is clearly not Kendall's wheelhouse, this shit talking. So next we cut back to the game that they're playing. It's over.
Everyone's packing up. Colin the bodyguard comes over to the family that ro Roman briefly promised a million dollars and then said, haha, psych. And he is carrying the Patek Philippe Watch case and is saying that, you know, we'd like to keep this quiet. We're gonna have you sign an NDA. It's terrible. Pay these people off. So I will say they didn't get a million dollars, but you know, that watch is worth a decent amount of money. Yeah. I guess they could have ended worse, so I think they could sell it.
Jon: So Really? Yeah. Really they don't have anything to complain about is what you're saying.
Kara: I, I still feel very terrible for them because actually, although, although you can get a decent chunk of change for that watch, like if you like resold it, it's not [01:22:00] nearly close to a million dollars. Yeah.
Jon: You don't where can't put a price on complete and utter humiliation.
Kara: So Logan is then talking to Frank. He fires him and Frank is like what the fuck? And Logan is like there's a press release on your phone. You should read it. I say you might wanna change it. It's a bit for I, yeah. So Frank is fired now. Logan says, don't worry, you'll get your nut. And then he calls to Connor, Shiv and Roman and tells them to come to the his helicopter 'cause they're gonna talk about the trust.
So they're in the helicopter. Logan says the deadline is passed. It's past, so it's past four. And he asks what they think. Roman asks, what's the frank situation? Logan's like, Frank is out. And Tom stepping up. And Connor, he, again, he doesn't super care at the moment. He's as, he's like, as long as I still get money when I ask for it, whatever.
So he says, I'm with these two, what they say goes, and so Roman and Shiv are both kind of looking at each other like, do you wanna say it? Do you wanna say it? They're afraid of their father, [01:23:00] basically. And so Shiv finally says that it doesn't quite work for them at present, and Logan doesn't look pleased by this response, which is why they were clearly both kind of like, who's gonna actually say it?
I think they picked Shiv, maybe because she's the baby. And that's, that seems like a good way to go. And the favorite too. I feel like Roman would've, yeah, she's the favorite. And Roman probably would've gotten slapped.
Adina: Oh, a real shitty smarmy thing to do. Like you guys
literally just negotiated these, all these
demands that you wanted and now you're,
I mean, we know where they get it from though.
Kara: And so Logan's not happy, obviously. He's like, why not? And she's like, why would I give away power? Shady Shiv and Logan looks, looks a little hazed. And he's like, so Kelly will set up some figures and they all kind of look at him like, who the fuck is Kelly? What are you talking about?
And then they're like, what's wrong? And then you see Logan is like having a moment. He's like having a stroke, like in this [01:24:00] helicopter. And he, he passes out and they're like, all like, oh my God. Roman shouts to the pilot to take them to a hospital because their father has, it's a good thing they were already in a helicopter.
Yeah, that's, that is good. He's having a health crisis. Next we go back to Kendall and Lawrence at the boardroom. Lawrence is on the phone and he hangs up. He asks Kendall if he's heard the news, and Kendall's like, what, what? And so Lawrence says they have a deal and Kendall gets really excited, and he's and so he thinks that's the news that Lawrence is referring to.
He's saying that you're gonna, you know, have a good, this is gonna be good. You won't regret this. And then Lawrence says, so the news I was talking about is your dad just had a brain brain hemorrhage, but you just invited me into the chicken coop and without Daddy around to protect you. I'm going to eat you all one by fucking one.
Which I'd like to note, he never really does.
Adina: Yeah. I think that's another like, pilot thing of they were maybe setting him up [01:25:00] to be a larger antagonist. Mm-hmm. And then they realized they didn't wanna go that route.
Kara: Yeah. Because he just, he mostly managed, he comes back like once, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's, we see him, we see him a couple more times in season one.
And even like a time or two in season two. Season two.
Jon: Well, I think it, it serves the function of like showing that like, you know, The Roys are like these, like these, these rich people, like these key players in like the media landscape with all of this like big dick energy. But that they're also like the other people, like they're, they're essentially, they're kind of out of their depths in a lot of ways 'cause they're also working and like rubbing elbows with like, people who have similar sort of big dick energy and also like, will outsmart them and like will, you know, so it just kinda like establishes like the entire, you know, a lot of the mini conflicts that are gonna exist throughout the season.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kara: Mm-hmm. So that is how Kendall learns that his father had a stroke. Then right after Lawrence says [01:26:00] that, Shiv calls him and says that Logan's in the hospital. So then we've got this last scene, which is the cool little montage moment. So we see Frank is sitting by himself at the baseball field still just in like a chair, a lawn chair looking mad and sad.
Shiv is crying on the phone to Kendall. She's at the hospital. We see Marcia watching Logan in the room that he's in. And then we also see Tom Roman and Connor in the hallway at the hospital. They're all kind of just like, you know, waiting, like, what else can they do? Kendall, like he's hung up now with Shiv and he just kind of looks like, oh my God.
What's going to happen? We get a shot of Logan hooked up to a bunch of machines. And then we go back to that kid's family who almost got a million dollars today, but then didn't. And he's like, you know, on his little tablet or whatever, and the news is playing in the [01:27:00] background. And it's, you know, one of their channels just again, highlighting the fact that they own everything.
And you also see a shot of the watch just sitting on, on like a table. And then it kind of like pans out and it's like, you know, that apartment building and all of these overlapping news reports, you start to hear them, you hear one that says that Logan is in critical condition. So like, what is the going to be the state of Waystar Royco??
So just, you know, really hitting home that this family pretty much owns the news as well. So it's got like, so, which I think is like a good sort of end shot. Mm-hmm. Like the, the city. Yeah. And all of the news that way Star has playing as the episode ends.
Jon: And it kind of like, it ends with like that shot of like the, you know, like the, the pros, you know, like the proletariat. Doing their thing. Like, you know, they're dealing with like, yeah, it's the end of their day. It's after they've all gone, [01:28:00] like they're go, they're back from work and making dinner and watching the news and stuff like that. And. It's kinda like what everything that the Roys are trying to create is like what it all is like gearing toward.
Kara: Yeah. It's also like not necessarily a big deal to anyone that has absolutely no stock in this, like literally stocks, because in the next episode the stock crashes. But it, this, we are invited into a world where this means a lot, this means so much to this family that everything is about to change for them.
Yeah. So like, even though it really, in the grand scheme of things, it's kind of like, okay, who cares? It's like a giant deal. Totally. Yeah. So that's, that's what it's hitting home. Yeah.
So now that we've gone through the episode let's talk about some things that we enjoyed about this pilot.
Adina: I feel like this is not [01:29:00] necessarily my favorite pilot. Overall, like if I had to pick my favorite pilot I think it's good for this show. Mm-hmm. I think it asks a lot more effort than a lot of the other pilots we've been watching. We talked a little bit in our last episode mm-hmm. Our, our one year anniversary about like, your pilot is teaching people how to watch your show and like inviting the audience in. 'cause there's a lot of information. There is a shit ton of information in this pilot. There's a lot of characters and there's a lot of things to catch up on. And so I think, like I said, I sometimes have a short attention span. Like, I think part of the reason I initially didn't love the show as much is because I was just like, this is too much.
You're expecting me to, to get to know all these characters and all this business shit. It, it felt more high effort than what I was expecting. Mm-hmm. But I do think it's a good show. It's, it's worth it. Like you can ask a lot of your audience if you're gonna give a lot in return. And I think this show does that.
And so I think that's what makes a good. Quote unquote prestige show. A good like HBO show is when, you [01:30:00] know, sometimes they are a little bit longer, a little bit more detailed and whatever, but if they reward you with a good story. 'cause I feel like even just this, like second or third time I was watching it, I'm noticing a lot more and it's really deeper and more enjoyable.
So I think any, that's the mark of really good TV for me is if you look closer and think harder about it, it becomes even better as opposed to some shows. Mm-hmm. When
you look closer and think harder about them, they kind of fall apart. So I think, I think Succession is, is that, I think that's the reason why it is so popular and so good, is because it's, it's very layered and at the core of it, all the conflicts and all the relationships are. They make a lot of sense and they're very visceral, even if it is satirical on top of it. Yeah. So no matter how closely you look at it, it's always gonna hold strong.
Jon: Yeah. It's gonna hold Jeremy Strong.
Kara: My favorite thing, I mentioned this a little earlier, but I think my favorite thing about this episode is that it does [01:31:00] such a good job of introducing each big player in this.
And also fairly quickly we get such a good sense of who they are as people. Like I said, with Kendall's introduction, I was immediately like, oh. This guy, this guy, I don't know how I feel about him. And then I feel like Kendall the most in this episode gets like a lot more depth than maybe some of the other characters do.
But you know, like he is, he is kind of our focus. It's like supposed to be his big day, but then it isn't. We get like a really good initial reaction of him, but then we're like, it's immediately kind of challenged by the rest of what's going on with him, which I think is interesting to see. And then, yeah, and like even with some of our like sup more supporting players at the moment, like Tom and Greg, we immediately know that Tom is like, you know, clearly a suck up.
Just the worst type of suck up. You know, he's like, I gotta strategize my [01:32:00] girlfriend's gonna get me into this family. That sort of thing. And then like Greg, a different type of suck up who is, you know, like he's like in the family because he is family, but not really yet. He, he has to like, you know, figure it out and make his way in.
And then of course you've got all of the siblings who you've got Connor who simply couldn't be, couldn't be bothered to like give a fuck unless his money is going to be taken away from him.
Jon: He's too busy with his, with his water, that people are gonna kill each other over as he explained to that small child.
Kara: Yeah, his little aqueduct. Roman and Shiv both clearly want what is best for them. They're looking out for themselves first and foremost. And I think that generally these are all terrible people, but somehow we find a way to root for them. In a very odd way, which I, I think, I mean like, even though they suck, I mean, I guess I'm going slightly past the [01:33:00] pilot, but I will say, at least in the pilot I did, I did like feel some sort of sympathy for Kendall in the sense that he got screwed over completely on this day.
Jon: Yeah. Well you can tell he, he just, he does kind of wanna be a good person. It's just literally not in his blood. Yeah. Like he wants to do the right thing in so far as his situation allows him to, but he just can't, both because it's not his blood. And also because if he does the right thing, then he's gonna fuck himself over in terms of his ability to, you know, become the, the true heir with the flare.
I just, I, I like the fact that it, it's a, I agree with Adina, like as much as Succession is, prob is one of my favorite shows, like of all time and I think one of the best shows like of the past whatever, five years, like. I don't know if I would say that like it's the best pilot of all time, or like my favorite pilot ever.
I like the fact that it's just like, it starts off really solid and then the show it [01:34:00] gets, it gets better. Like they figure things out as they go along with the second season, they make certain adjustments and sort of start things off on a more comedic note and just kind of like throw you into it and immerse you in things a little bit more, which you're able to do obviously with the, the, the season premier of a, of a, of a second season.
But yeah, I like the fact that it starts off so strong, but it just gets better. And it all, it pays off. Like it's very rewarding. It is a hard watch for for sure, but that's also like the sign that it's like, it's a television show that is like written by like people who have like, you know, read a book in their life. Which unfortunately present company excluded a lot of television writers. It doesn't seem to be the case in my opinion.
Kara: This is also a television show that employs a bunch of playwrights.
Jon: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, exactly. But it also, but I, but it doesn't come off that way in a bad way. 'cause there are some shows that do that.
Yeah. And then you're just like, I should be reading a play and why would I ever do that? So I'm just gonna watch something else instead. So I [01:35:00] just like the fact that it strikes all of those balances really well.
Adina: Another thing that I think was done really well in this pilot and throughout the show is the dialogue. First of all, it's very interesting and funny and different. And every character has a super different way of speaking. Super, super different way of speaking. Like from any individual line you can tell who it is and not every show has that. And so when you were talking about it, you know, having playwrights that came to mind and I think like a lot of the lines are like, they're very entertaining sorts of lines and they're not how normal people talk. But you believe that these characters would talk that way 'cause they do not lead normal lives. And that's just always a treat. So I think, you know, sometimes people talk a lot about like realistic dialogue and like sometimes that's the goal, but also sometimes it's about how can you write interesting dialogue that doesn't, you know, it's interesting to listen to or it's funny or it's entertaining and it's different, but still feels true to the characters in the situation.
And I think this show does that really well.
Kara: And this is like [01:36:00] realistic to them. Yeah, exactly. Like this isn't our reality, but it is the reality of the uber wealthy. So they, it's like to them it makes sense and we're gonna get a glimpse into how that makes sense to them, but maybe not to us. And that's, I think that's part of the reason that it's so funny when they have such insane reactions to certain situations that you're just like, that's not a big deal. But to them, it is.
Jon: I meant to say this earlier, this is not in any way connected to the question that we're discussing right now, but in terms of my connection to the show one of the moments where I realized like, oh my God, this show is, is like so fucking for me. Do any of you know what the, the name of the, the title of the season one finale is Off the top of your head?
Kara: Nobody is ever missing. That's, can I just show you?
Jon: You can't see this? Probably 'cause it's
Kara: oh my God. Wow.
Jon: I should say I did not, I got this in 2016. I got this. Oh. So I'm, this [01:37:00] is a, a vid an audio medium once again. So I'll just describe it for the, for the listener. I have a tattoo on my. Left bicep and it says "nobody is ever missing".
And I got this in 2016. So this was before the show came out. I did not get this because of the show, but because it's from a poem by John Berryman, which is where the season one finale gets its name. And also from that same poem is where the season two finale gets its name. "This is not for tears.". Oh yeah.
Wow. So yeah, you can imagine when I was like watching the show and I like loaded up, I typed in hbo.com, typed in my password, clicked on Succession. Ooh, the season. The season one finale. What's it called? And I just like, you know, I almost shout myself. I was like, fuck, that's incredible. Fuck. Like, yeah. So, Yeah.
So
Kara: just poetry things with John Lemay?
Jon: Yeah. It's like, and this is like, John Berryman is like kind of well known in like a very specific niche section of like the poetry world, but it's not like a, it's not a Robert Frost poem, right? Yeah. So [01:38:00] when I saw that, I was like, oh, this is, this is really special.
Kara: That's so fun. Yeah. So before we wrap up and for fun, 'cause I also think this, this I feel like is another sort of personality test I wanna know what, who is everyone's favorite character and who is your favorite Roy sibling?
So I will go first. My favorite character is Greg. And my favorite Roy sibling is Roman.
Adina: My favorite character was not in the pilot, but my fa favorite character by far, hands down, is Gerri. And my favorite Roy sibling honestly varies by the day between Kendall, Roman and Shiv. But it is never Connor.
Jon: Yeah, yeah. That's fair. God, that, that I'm in the same boat as Adina. My, my my favorite Roy Sibling shifts, but I, I just, because I just find him to be such a compelling character, I think I'm gonna go with Kendall That's fair. As my favorite, as my favorite Roy sibling. Mm-hmm. And my favorite character is Greg, [01:39:00] his cousin Greg.
I'm, yeah. Yeah. I love him. I'm basic like that. No, no, no offense to Kara, but we're both basic. We can be basic.
Kara: Yeah. No, it's, I feel it's a basic answer. I also think that but like, he's enjoyable. He's just. He is so enjoyable. He brings so much comedy to the entire thing with his height. Yeah. And his general demeanor.
He's also always in the wrong place at the wrong time, but then that leads him to be in the right place at the right time and some usually by accident. And that's like, so fun for me. All right. What about you Pat?
Pat: You know, I have a little bit of a wild card from my favorite character. It's Ewan.
Adina: Really?
Ooh, elaborate.
Kara: Interesting.
Pat: He's, he's absolutely so fascinating to me. It's he despises his brother, he despises the at t n message and he really seems to think that like at t n is the root of all of civilization's downfall. [01:40:00] But he can't stop taking the check. You know?
Kara: That's the tea. Yeah. I was like, every time he talks, I was like, Yuan, you are still benefiting from this. Yeah.
Pat: Yeah. I I love that. I love that. Internal, that strike and
Jon: play by play by the, incomparable James Cromwell.
Pat: Yeah. James Cromwell.
Kara: For those who don't know, since he's not in the first episode, and just to say again, Ewan is Logan's brother.
Pat: Yes. And I think the, my favorite Roy sibling, well, I really like Connor. I really like Connor.
Jon: He's pure of heart in his own way.
Pat: He's just totally in his own world. Yes, totally. In his own world, you know? Con -heads. Yeah, yeah,
Kara: yeah. He makes me, you know, the con heads, he definitely makes me laugh and like, you are terrible.
Jon: I mean the most relatable, the most, like, the, the, the biggest truth to power thing that gets communicated in this show is said by Connor when Willa eventually is talking to him about the power of art and he's like, [01:41:00] oh, it's not like actually that powerful.
And she's like, yeah, well Art has the power to change minds. And he's like, yeah, but not really. And I'm like, you know what? Say it for the people in the back.
Kara: Yeah, that's pretty true. So, yeah. That was Succession. It's a wild show and we all think you should give it a chance. Yeah, speaking from I guess me, Pat and Adina who all were like, I don't know about this.
Adina: And also I feel like all of us have generally fairly different tastes. Mm-hmm. Like outside of this, maybe I'm wrong in saying that. Mm-hmm. But I don't think I'm wrong. You're not. And yet we all really like it. So I do think it's one of those things of like, we, we talked about this a little bit on other shows, like Breaking Bad and like lost shows that are like so hyped up and you're like, are they really as good as everybody's saying?
And I am always the person that's skeptical of the thing that's really hyped up. Same. Yeah. But like, sometimes they really just, sometimes things are just really, really well executed at what they are and that's what Succession is. I think. Yeah. It might not be your favorite thing for everybody, but I do think it's worth a shot.
'cause it's, [01:42:00] it's, it's a really well done TV show about a fucked up family. It's got some, some messed up drama. It's got a lot of satire, a lot of comedy, and it's got some really good performances, so. Mm-hmm. You know, give
Kara: it a shot. Tr yeah. So yeah. Thank you again to our guests, Jon and Pat. Thank you.
Tell the listeners where they can find you and your podcast.
Jon: You can find Pat and Pat on their best behavior the podcast in which two college friends bond with and berate one another over the music and films they like. From Paddington to Pop Punk to Paul Thomas Anderson. You can find that wherever you listen to your podcasts, most likely Spotify or Apple Podcast.
But if you want Stitcher, we got Stitcher. If you want Google Play, we got Google Play. If you wanna listen to it directly on Anchor fm, we got that too. Also if you want to follow us on Instagram you can do that. We are @patandjonontheirbestbehavior. Yeah, so check us out. We talk about a lot of random stuff [01:43:00] always with usually within the realm of.
Film and, and music. And we have some great guests. We're gonna have the two hosts of this podcast on at a future date, so keep your eyes posted for that. But yeah, if you look through all of our 65 episodes, You should probably find something that would pique your interest. Yeah, I know. It's crazy to say that I had, I had a real, like, wow, how, how many hours have I spent on this podcast moment?
Right then and there?
Kara: That's how I felt. We have like 30 something and I was like, this is so many.
Jon: Yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot of, a lot of hours that could have otherwise been spent in the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours in order to become an expert on something. But I won't, I won't think about that.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and listen to us, leave us a rating and review. And you know what? More importantly, you should leave a rating and a review of the podcast that you are listening to right now. Oh. If you're, if you listen to this entire episode and you haven't done that, I mean, seriously, like, this is free.
This is free entertainment. So, Being [01:44:00] stingy. What else are you doing with your time?
Not watching Succession probably.
Kara: So thanks for listening. We wanna hear from you now. If you have any thoughts about the Succession pilot you'd like to share with us or suggestions for shows we should watch, you can email us at itsinmypod@gmail.com.
Adina: And in case you wanna prepare for the next episode, discussion with us, the next pilot we will be watching in honor of spooky season is The Walking Dead. So go ahead and watch or rewatch that episode so you'll be ready for our thoughts on it next time. And if you wanna hear our TV thoughts that go beyond the pilot, don't forget to subscribe to our brand new newsletter at itsinmyqueue.substack.com for our thoughts and TV news straight in your inbox every Friday.
Kara: And if you like what you heard, please rate, review, subscribe, and tell your friends to listen. You can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram @inmyqueuepod or on our personal Twitters.
Adina: I am @adinaterrific
Kara: [01:45:00] and I am @karaaa_powelll. Thanks for listening, and we hope we've helped you clear out your queue.